Abusers are COWARDS: FLDS Fathers Abandon Their Children and Wives
Susan Hays, an attorney for a toddler in state custody, said many of the fathers are reluctant and some may have left the state, fearing that the tests are really designed to help prosecutors make criminal abuse cases.
My motto is – you only run off and hide if you have something to hide. REAL men – REAL FATHERS – who would have nothing to hide, and who might believe their children have been “taken hostage by the State” would not flee the State and run off and hide like cowards (like criminal abusers.) They would stand up – before God and this country – and FIGHT for those children.
And so who is left to pick up the pieces – the wives. And while I hold the wives 100% accountable for the position they have put their children in – there is an element of truth to the fact that the women, too, were abused and brainwashed and doing only what their oppressors told them was “godly.” But that’s how ungodly, unhealthy men deal with their lives – they come into the lives of women, make huge messes, and then leave the women to clean up their crap. They’ve probably convinced the “wives” that leaving is their only way of protecting. It is clearly SO backwards and wrong to those of us who are on the outside – but I can totally understand how those women would embrace their “husbands” leading and follow along like puppy dogs – incapable of thinking for themselves. They’ve been abused too.
It’s a shame some of the mother’s won’t do the right thing for their children and leave the cult as well. If they are so worried about the children being in the custody of the state – why aren’t the mothers banging at the state’s door, begging, pleading, to let the mothers go WITH their children. I would bet that there might be a few sympathetic ears. However, it seems to me that their REAL concern for their children is shown by the fact that they are at the compound and the FLDS children are moving into Foster Homes now.
From the same article:
CPS said in its placement plan — attached to Walther’s order — that it will try to place mothers under 18 with their children and to keep sibling groups together. Some of the families may have dozens of siblings.
Boys ages 8 and older will likely be placed in a setting similar to that where dozens of teen boys were taken last week, a Boys Ranch near Amarillo in the Texas Panhandle some 250 miles from Eldorado.
What a horrible position these parents have put these children in. And the State in. What an atrocity.
Hey Sarah,
The Boys Ranch that is mentioned in the article is the same place that Aunt Jo and Uncle Lefty worked and lived for over 35 years. It’s a wonderful place to be for these boys. (Although they probably don’t think so right now) I’m sure they are getting tons of support from the staff there.
Bev, I wondered if it was the same place. I too think this is a much better place for the boys than the perverted compound they were forced to endure. It’s neat to know that my family has ties to something so wonderful as this boys’ ranch that will offer hope and healing to these young men.
Dear Sarah,
I found your site again! Wow, I thought you had completely vanished. I had just begun to enjoy reading “womanhood revisited” and then it disappeared. I was on QF when you “resigned” and I quit also.
Thanks for keeping up the writing. I thought your posts were just so smart and was longing that more women could get a hold of what you were saying. I was reading at Jen’s Gems and saw your name.
When you quit QF I had written an email to you… You maybe don’t remember me, I am from Canada, and had several little ones in a row.
May God bless you,
Rebecca in Alberta
Dear Rebecca!
I will admit – I’m very sorry – I totally don’t remember you!! BUT…it really has been a long time – literally YEARS – since I’ve talked to anyone from the QF circle, except the Bortels and the Vaughns. And it’s only been recently that the Vaughns have cut ties with me. I am still great friends with the Bortels though – Suzanne Bortel truly understand Christian grace, love and charity so it’s not been hard for her to keep loving me in spite of our different opinions.
(For those that don’t know what QF stands for, is I won’t elaborate, out of kindness to your womb. hee hee)
I feel I must warn you, Rebecca, I’m not who I was. At all. My core beliefs have not changed, but the way I express those beliefs through my day to day walk have changed dramatically – as you will see if you read through the blog enough. I hope it is not offensive to you. I guess what I’m trying to say is – I’m as transparent as I ever was – and that still makes a lot of folk uncomfortable because now I’m kind of on the other side of the fence….
So. Anyway. Other than that – it was so cool to hear from you!! I am really sorry I don’t remember you – I can’t believe you remember me!!! It would be great to catch up if you want to!
lots of love,
Sarah – in Texas!
This thread reminds me of when I quit the qf blog. I doubt anyone remembers me as anything but the dissenter. Sarah, rest assured the only reason that I have not been cut off from the Vaughns is b/c we are family. It is difficult to maintain a friendship when one’s religious belief system is radically different from anothers. That makes me thankful for the bond of family.
I remember feeling so condemned and so much bondage while on the qf digest that I had to excuse myself from it. It made me laugh to read that you weren’t elaborating out of kindness to the wombs.
Since the qf belief is only derived from Scripture and not directly outlined in Scripture, it seems to fit under the same convictions as being a vegetarian or home birthing. To each his own.
Hey Sarah – I hope this thread hasn’t sounded harsh or brought back any bad memories! I really don’t want to put any kind of enmity between you or I considering your positioning with the Vaughn family. I have my own thoughts about it all and I haven’t ever addressed it with you because there really isn’t a need to. I can respect that they are your family and you seem to be able to balance the relationships (me and you, you and them) fine w/o me adding a bunch of baggage to the teeter totter.
I only brought them up as a means of illustrating to Rebecca that I’m so radically changed, that even the former owners of the digest no longer speak to me. And she probably knows that I was very close to them back in the day. I probably should have been more creative in my post and avoided mentioning them at all. I really hope I haven’t hurt your feelings or put you in an odd position.
And yes – the QF digest is really a great example of eisegesis. Taking a position on something and then finding Scripture to back up your ideal. You know my biological father takes a pretty hard Biblical stance that Marijuana is God’s gift to mankind and we are called to smoke it. He’s got Scripture to back it up. There are Modern Day Jews who use Scripture to validate elective abortion – saying that there is no soul in an unborn baby and that God places no value on unborn children – and they base this belief strictly using Scripture only from the Torah. So. I don’t know. To each his own? Maybe. Maybe not.
I’ll stick with this: Trust that Jesus was the Saviour sent to redeem mankind and then work to cultivate an intimate relationship with God. Everything else will flow from there…
One thing I do know though – my salvation certainly does not rest on how many humans come out of my womb.
Sarah
Sarah – it just occurred to me that by “thread” you were referencing the posts I’ve put up dealing with the FLDS. HA! I thought you were talking about the conversation between Rebecca and myself. LOL! Sometimes I have to have things spelled out for me.
As far as dealing with the FLDS issue, I will continue to post about it as things come up and I have an opinion – but you don’t have to read it. Yes, I have been harsh, judgmental and condemning towards members of cults that abuse children AND towards the Christians that would seek to send the children back to such a place. I just can’t wrap my little mind around their reasoning. I’ve tried. But, perhaps I should tone it down a bit.
The anger expressed in my posts could also have a double meaning. Perhaps. It’s the same kind of anger and injustice I used to feel in me towards certain people when I first came out of the little cult group here in town – but I’m not free to bash those certain people in this public blog – so the FLDS make a pretty easy scapegoat for me to vent my anger. I actually thought about that earlier and thought I should probably move on to better topics. Don’t fester too long in the sewer type thinking…not a healthy thing to do. You get bogged down. Too theological. Which is what I try really hard NOT to do. LOL!!
So, for the FLDS thread, take what you want and toss the rest (that’s another handy motto I roll with!) I can hardly read 1 syllable on some folks blogs, but I like to lurk on their sites b/c I enjoy seeing the photos of their children…even though I’m cut off. And I’m not just talking about the Vaughns here.
Hey! No worries and no odd position!! I was referencing the thread between you and Rebecca and putting in my own point of view [b/c I have dealt with many similar frustrations myself about qf and calvanism, etc], but I didn’t feel you said it in a negative way at all.
I love reading your blog and I think you are a fun and intelligent woman. Keep it up!
Dear Sarah and Sarah,
I actually had at one time bumped into “Womanhood Revisted” just simply because of being in the throes of feeling like I was in burnout and was looking around online for some support on who God thinks women are. Instead of the vacuous place I was in, where I was too overwhelmed to function correctly.
I used to enjoy listening and reading the writings of Dr Alice VonHildebrand, who had a lot to say about our friend Simone de Beauvoir. She was so memorable, I think I remembered you because I associate you with Simone! LOL
I thought your resignation from QF was both smart and courageous. No I never got involved much with the actual movement, just interested in how other large families made it work. We were sadly lost in another equally as damaging, network of souls.
I do have 8 children now, but not because of QF. We just love them, it took me some time to figure out that it wasn’t the children that were the heavy weight in my life that left me emotionally drained all of the time. It was the pressure from the group, to always be the perfect follower. And the feeling that you’d lose everything if you didn’t conform well enough.
Rebecca – I will most definitely have to look up this Dr. Alice Von Hildebrand!! She sounds like a good friend already.
Oh how I can relate to every single thing you’ve stated. I’m sorry you were hurt by Christians. We seem to really do a good job injuring one another don’t we? As if the world itself isn’t harmful enough – actually I find being present and active in the secular world is far less hurtful/harmful than being present/active in the religious world. LOL!
And congratulations on 8 children! You won’t find me or Sarah condemning you for that! I think it’s wonderful SINCE YOU WANT THEM!!! What I can’t stand are the women and men who are just propagating the species out of some hyper-religious mandate from God. As if God isn’t capable of doing it on His own… He created us for God’s sake! If He wants to sustain our life here on Earth, He’ll see to it. I’m sure of it. 6,000+ yrs later, there’s still humans roaming the Earth. Most of which were NOT borne out of a covenental duty to “bear more fruit….”
LOL!
Oh and Rebecca – I’ve been mulling around the idea about Who God Thinks Women Should Be for a while now. It’s like me undercurrent. It’s always in the back of my mind. I’ve blogged about it in sporadic posts here and there and in the middle of articles – very random.
I think Godly Feminism is a wonderful phrase. I think if I revamp Womanhood Revisited it will def. be headed in a different direction other than, “Please wash the dishes so your husband will love you more.” type stuff. That’s works based. We need to be talking about the Soul of the Woman and how She relates to her Father.
Hi Sarah and all your friends!
I’ve certainly enjoyed reading your exchanges above. It’s really refreshing to “eavesdrop” on your conversation…to hear how the young women of another generation are thinking about many similar issues that my generation thinks about. I remember my mom and the women in the family her age, both her sisters, and, my father’s women family members talking about these same subjects…with one slight difference…not much mention of the God factor…except from my mom. She was a light in a family of darkness from both sides. I didn’t know that at the time, but, I recognize it as such now, looking back, a little older (LOL) and a little wiser (at least to recognize some things worth recognizing).
I like your phrase above “the soul of the woman and how she relates to her Father”…EVERYTHING stems from this point…her relationship to and with her Maker…her Father. So, we all keep asking, searching and sharing.
Keep going girls, ladies!
side note: Boys Ranch in Amarillo has produced a number of good men! Soapy Dollar right here on am radio in San Antonio area is a fine example of that…I think you can google him…